Joint Task Force w/Orange Coast UU Church
Site Committee Report
Download the PDF of the Report of the Joint Site Committee, April 9, 2008 (32 KB).
2008 Cottage Meetings
Download PDFs of these meeting summaries:
Orange Coast UU Church (17 KB)
March 2008 Update
The ETF continues its work on the attempt to join Tapestry and OCUUC. It recently organized 15 Cottage Meetings in members’ homes with over 120 attendees, who told their desires, hopes, concerns if a new congregation is created. Reports of these cottage meetings will be posted on the websites for all to see.
The next step in the process is to form Joint Program Committees to work on Finances, Site Search, Bylaws, Worship Services, and Religious Education for a new congregation. The ETF and Presidents are now forming these joint committees. These Phase I committees will make their recommendations to the Boards and Congregations for approval. The ETF will attempt to get the Joint Program Committees working in March. If the process continues, Phase II committees will be called into action for programs that will be required after a building is found.
The Timetable the ETF has been working under has Congregational Meetings at both sites currently planned for March. Details of these meetings were to be worked out by the ETF and the Boards by the end of February. The Timetable proposes a vote at OCUUC on whether to list their building for sale. A vote at Tapestry would be whether to continue the attempts to merge if OCUUC votes to sell its building.
The ETF has been very pleased with the positive comments at the Congregational Meetings, The Cottage Meetings and in the coffee hours. The near-unanimous votes at the two congregations was very encouraging. It is our desire to communicate at every step along the way what we are doing, We also appreciate the many people who came to meetings, who volunteered to work on joint committees and who participated in the Joint Service on February 3 and in other joint programs.
Jim Semelroth, Co Chair, on behalf of Richard Jagielko, Julia Rampone, Keith Tuominen-Lenny, Tara Sayre, Dave Kinnear and Rev. John.
December 2007 Update
The Exploratory Task Force to explore collaboration between OCUUC and Tapestry congregations is in a lull before the first of the year. To bring you up to date, though, here are the latest developments.
The Task Force has now met four times, and a complete profile comparing the likenesses and differences between the two congregations has been prepared. The impressively full text of the profile and map are now posted on this web page, and a large demographic map is posted at each church.
Each congregation has now conducted two informational meetings after church to give people a chance to ask questions and receive answers. A third meeting will happen January 13. Summaries of the Q and A format of each of those meetings are also on the web site.
On December 9, the Revs. John Millspaugh and Karen Stoyanoff did a pulpit exchange. This, in addition to the joint choir performance at Tapestry in November, was a chance to see "what it might be like."
Several members from each congregation have visited services in "the other place," again to "see what it might be like." The feedback has been, on both sides, a warm welcome and a great chance to meet more UU's and exchange ideas. You're all welcome to do this at any time! Their services are at 9:30 and 11:00, and you can find the directions by asking any TF member (see sidebar).
Now... What Will Happen Next??
Beginning in January, small cottage meetings of 8 to 12 people will meet in homes selected to accommodate people from several communities within our existing Tapestry demographic. You'll be invited to attend these meetings, where you'll have a chance to ponder at length the advantages and disadvantages of a formal commitment between the two congregations. At that time we will also explore whether or not difficulties can be alleviated.
You'll then be invited to vote on three separate occasions as to whether or not you want to proceed: On January 27, you'll vote on a motion of "attempt a Union"; if that passes, in March you'll get to vote on whether to "commit" to working together; in June, the vote would be about forming a "new congregation." In other words, do you have a say? Absolutely. The only way you would NOT have a say is to NOT participate in an open, democratic process.
February 3 you'll be able to experience what a joint service between OCUUC and Tapestry would be like. The two ministers are arranging for us all to be together in one place this Sunday morning. More details will follow.
INFORMATION ABOUT THIS PROCESS: Read the profile and new reports and updates posted here. Come to the congregational meeting on January 27, 2008, and the joint service February 3. In the meantime, ask any of the task force people how to find out what's going on (see sidebar for task force members)
Jim Semelroth, Co Chair
Exploration Task Force
Tapestry President Tara Sayre's Announcement
Tapestry members and friends,
It is with great pleasure that the Tapestry Board presents to you the joint profile of Orange Coast Unitarian Universalist Church, and Tapestry, a Unitarian Universalist Congregation. The Exploratory Task Force has done a wonderful job pulling together a document with comparisons of the bylaws, processes, programs, and high-level financials. There's also a map showing where the members of each congregation live, so you can get a sense of those demographics.
There were informational meetings in November 2007, and there will be another set in December. Please read the information contained in the documents mentioned above, and let the Task Force know what other info you need or want — that way, we can be sure to pull it all together for you before we have a congregational meeting (probably in January, but final date is still to be determined) to decide if, and how, to proceed from here.
We would also encourage you to check out the Orange Coast UU Church's website, and go to a service or two. Knowledge is power, and informed and powerful UUs do amazing things!!
Warmly,
Tara Sayre
Nov. 24, 2007
Timeline
Download the timeline (PDF, 68KB) as of December 2007.
Questions From Informational Meetings
OCUUC Congregational Session, January 13, 2008 Meeting
Nancy Loughrey began the meeting at 12:30. She explained that this meeting would have a different format from the previous informational meetings, and that it was a time for everyone to express themselves about OCUUC conversations with Tapestry. She introduced our outside resource person, Phyllis Daniels, who would lead the meeting and take notes on the easel.
Twenty-six people spoke. The speakers will be identified only by number in these notes, and the number repeated and asterisked if the speaker was speaking for more than one time.
1. Although I'm not either for or against a potential merger, I am skeptical. Growth of UUism should involve more churches, not less; closer, not further.
2. The way that the San Diego congregation has been able to develop satellites is not a model for Orange County, as we are not the size and influence of that model. Merging would provide an immediate "step-up" of UU impact.
3. I think merger has become a foregone conclusion, and I've been told by a member of the new property search committee that they are only looking for property for a merged congregation.
4. I've heard that the building next door is empty, and if it is sold, we could lose our parking, which has been our recurring problem. Our growth is now stagnant, and we could become stronger UU's if we joined forces.
5. We are not a healthy, growing church as we are now. We have a dearth of leadership; for example, the nominating committee was very hard to staff. We have been calling on the same people to take jobs. The decision for breaking out of this pattern will be ours.
6. I support the merger and/or moving. But we need some type of transportation arrangement in place members who can't drive far to church.
7. As a ministerial student, I've learned that a church that is habitually 80% or more full will not grow. We have that situation right now.
8. What about taking the cliff down and doing a parking lot there? We could get Tapestry to bring their money to us to finance it.
9. I think we are in a rush to decision; it feels hurried and coerced. The first timeline I saw doesn't seem feasible.
10. We need transportation buses.
11. I love our space, too, but we definitely have a hard time staffing committees. I don't feel this has been at all rushed, but instead that we've been dragging our feet! I feel very positive that if we need to do this, we should.
*2. I was VP of finance in 2000, and I am now. We are having exactly the same problems that we had then, and we need to change something.
12. Recently we have lost, through moves, members who were very strong leaders. We need to develop a plan to increase commitment, include and welcome visitors.
13. Some of us young, new people are getting involved, for example on the Ways and Means Committee. However, we need people on the committee who have past experience and information for projects--such as the Casino Night--so that we can take them on.
14. I've been a member since 94/95, and I've had a lot of experience with other UU churches. New people and new relationships generate enthusiasm and energy. A larger church would be more cost effective and plan toward continuity. I, personally, will bus people who need it. I'm an advocate for joining forces.
15. I think we should put this in the right frame of reference. This is a decision for long term benefit for UUism ... not "What about me?"
16. What will be the problems if our policies differ, for example about requiring pledge for membership. Wouldn't issues such as this cause a schism?
17. Doing this will generate many questions and problems. We need a careful process.
7. Should we get professional outside help for this?
Nancy: Phyllis is an example of this. We also have other people in line as we go along, such as experts from the denomination and a potential realtor specializing in church property. However, several outside UUA people have been following our process closely, and they believe we have been doing things right.
11* It's really helpful for people to actually read the 27-page report the task force has created, as so much information is there that would answer many of these questions. I was amazed at how little difference there is between the two congregations. Could we consider a Power Point on these comparisons that would simplify this lengthy report?
18. I would welcome the new energy of the combined churches. Also, Orange County has a dominance of mega-churches. While we'd not exactly be a megachurch, this would give us the possibility of programs that address the needs of potential members who do want a larger congregation.
1.* Aren't we a healthy church? We grew by 25% when Karen came, and young leaders are emerging.
19. My perspective is economic and the law of diminishing returns. We will deteriorate if we don't expand in some way to be a vibrant congregation.
20. I'm a member of the ETF and have experienced working together. Different "cultures" can be worked out.
Mickey asked for a show of hands of how many people had visited Tapestry. About twenty people responded, and there was general laughter and a joke from Karen.
Karen said that those who had visited from either congregation expressed enthusiasm, such as the visitor from Tapestry this morning.
21. I'm also on the Task Force and have had experience trying to plan activities for Orange County pagans at our church. We inevitably have space problems if we have to meet in the Gillan building and are sometimes a victim of our own success.
8.* I have a lot of fear. I'm not a fan of all UU's, but I adore these UU's. I like things small and fear what we have would get diluted.
14. * I was on the board before, and there seems to be a policy of not asking for money. I think everyone should give according to ability, and service commitment should be an option.
22. Hey, we're all UU's! If we can't get along with other UU's, then we really have a problem!
21.* Actually, I've been invited to speak at Tapestry next week, and they have been most welcoming.
23. I think it's ironic that we're having some of these discussions after we just heard about Martin Luther King this morning. We should do what's best for the church.
24. Change is inevitable, and change means things are different. We just have to accept that.
25. We need more room! Are we afraid of change?! Change is inevitable!
26. I'm not a member of your church. My church is 2 miles from my house, but my son comes here, 40 miles from where he lives. I don't think you should worry about distance. Just do what's in your heart, and it will be right.
Karen: A little commercial. If you want to see what it would be like to join two congregations, come to the service on February 3. It will be great!
Wrap-up
Phyllis suggested that we indicate for now, since this will be the essence of the January 27 motion, how we feel about "continuing and deepening conversations with Tapestry."
Keeping things the· same: No votes other than one joke proxy vote for a person who was not present.
Continuing conversations: Unanimous
Tapestry Informational Meeting, January 20, 2008
Q: Where would the combined church be?
A: We now have a joint site search committee with Carole Shannon and Lynn Cowan, Bob Loeschen, and Nick Simon. They have tentatively set an area north of the El Toro Y and within one mile of the 405. If there were nothing available when we needed it, the area would have to be expanded.
Q: When would all this take place?
A: We have the vote to proceed to an attempted merger set for next Sunday, so please be here. After that, if the vote is positive in both congregations, we have cottage meetings to discuss the proposed merger, a tentative vote in March to proceed. OC has a building that they are attached to, which makes it harder for them than for us. We are not so attached to this building. Then if all goes forward in March, a date in June for a third vote is tentatively scheduled for both congregations. It is impossible to pinpoint exactly when a merger would take place because it involves selling their building and finding and purchasing a new site or building.
Q: Is this merger feasible financially?
A: We believe it is with our combined $600,000 budgets, reserves and equity in OC’s buildings. We do, however, have to honor our pledges this year and or capital pledges. Our new pledge drive is just now in the planning stages, so we have to continue to support Tapestry either way. If the votes are positive, we would set up a sub committee on budget and finance to create a budget for a new congregation, safeguard the reserves of both congregations.
Q: Do we have to match OC with their multi-million dollar equity?
A: No, from the beginning of the talks, there has been equity in all the committees and things have been planned to have the same information, meetings and discussions in parallel. OC has never treated us as a stepchild, but as equals.
Q: How many members do they have?
A: We are trying to fine tune or membership numbers here and there. They have a different definition of member than we. Currently we have 160 plus actual pledging members. Their initial count is 250, but that is being worked on. We are planning on 350-400 members if this merger happens.
Q: Do they still have a parking problem?
A: Their parking problem has been alleviated somewhat. They have an understanding that the loss of their parking next door is not imminent, but it could happen when the owner changes his mind and wants to build.
Q: What about the ministers?
A: Rev. Stoyanoff has announced that she may retire within three to five years. Rev. John is not planning on retiring. If the vote is positive next week, we would set up a staffing sub committee to deal with all the staff of both congregations. The ministers and presidents and maybe the boards would be on the sub committee.
Q: What if all this failed, would our reserves go to UUA?
A: No, all the funds on both sides belong to the congregations. The UUA has no control over our finances.
Tapestry Q & A
Do you have questions about the collaboration discussions between Tapestry and the Orange Coast UU Church? Here is a downloadable PDF containing the questions and answers that were elicited at the Informational Meetings in November.
Additional Informational Meetings are scheduled for December 9, 2007 [here is a downloadable PDF containing a summary of the questions and answers for the 12-09-07 meeting] and January 17, 2008 at Tapestry and OCUUC. Meetings are open to members and non members. For further information please contact Tara Sayre or Jim Semelroth or any other member of the Exploratory Task Force.
Jim Semelroth
Nov. 30, 2007
Orange Coast Q & A
The collaborative task force between OCUUC and Tapestry has been deeply committed to providing constant information to each congregation. To that end, we've had a series of newsletter articles from each congregational president and task force co-chair, regular communication with each board, and a series of monthly, open, "informational meetings" after services. The first informational meetings were held November 11 at OCUUC, November 18 at Tapestry. Future meetings will be December 9 and January 13. Here are accounts of the questions and answers developed in November from each congregation. We encourage members from each congregation to check out the Q and A list from the other congregation.
Mickey Jackson
Dec. 1, 2007
